Our Journey to Date, Our Journey Ahead (FON3-V07)

Transcript: Our Journey to Date, Our Journey Ahead

[00:00:00 CSPS title page. Text on screen: What Unites Us, Defines Us; Values and Ethics in Today's Federal Public Service.]

[00:00:04 Nathalie Laviades Jodouin appears full screen and addresses the audience from a lectern. Text on screen: Nathalie Laviades Jodouin, Vice-President, Canada School of Public Service.]

Nathalie Laviades Jodouin: Good morning, everyone. Hello, everyone. On behalf of the Canada School of Public Service, I'd like to give a warm welcome to everyone joining us here from across Canada for this two-day symposium on Values and Ethics in the Federal Public Service.

I'm Nathalie Laviades Jodouin. I'm the Senior Vice-President at the Canada School of Public Service, and I'll be your moderator for today.

Before I go any further, I'd like to acknowledge that I'm in Ottawa, Ontario, on the traditional, unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe people. I recognize that some of you are joining us from different areas of the country, each on distinct traditional Indigenous territories. I invite you to take a moment of reflection to recognize and honour the deep history of these lands.

Thank you for joining us in such large numbers. We're delighted to welcome you. I'm told that there are about 12,000 people, plus the people here in Ottawa. So, thank you for joining us in such large numbers.

No matter where you're attending the event from, you can participate in the discussion by opening wooclap on your device. To do this, I invite you to go to wooclap.com and enter the event code VEOCT in the top banner.

This interactive tool is going to be used throughout our two-day event and you can access it by visiting wooclap.com and by entering the event code VEOCT in the top banner to join it. We'd also love for you to send in a photo of yourself and of your team to let us know where you're joining us from, and we'll display the photos during the live event here in Ottawa. Just enter the code VEOCT in wooclap or scan the QR code to share your photo as well as your location.

This is a bilingual event, and we encourage all participants to engage in the language of their choice. Feel free to interact in the language of your choice.

So, now we're going to test the tool with the quick, quick survey to see where everyone is joining us from today. So, we'd ask that you please enter the code VEOCT in wooclap to access the survey and answer the following question. What city or town are you joining us from today? From what city are you joining us today?

[00:02:45 Split screen: Nathalie Laviades Jodouin and the results from the wooclap poll.]

Nathalie Laviades Jodouin: Lots in Ottawa, but many other places as well. Look at that. Toronto, Winnipeg, Sarnia, Laval, Gatineau, Dartmouth. Oh my gosh, a lot of places. That's amazing. Keep those responses coming. Brandon, Gatineau.

[00:03:15 Nathalie Laviades Jodouin appears full screen.]

Nathalie Laviades Jodouin: All right, so it's wonderful to see everyone who's joining us. It's really amazing to see so many people joining us in large numbers. Thank you all for participating and we're going to be continuing to use this tool throughout the next couple of days, so stay tuned for the next survey.

Now we're going to dive into the key themes of the symposium. So, over the last year, there have been discussions from coast to coast about values and ethics. We've seen from these conversations a truly remarkable surge in ideas and passions. This conference is intended to continue these discussions and really aims to deepen what we've learned, learn how to maintain that momentum and learn how to seize the challenges and opportunities that are available to us both today and in the future, in a constantly evolving environment. Our goal is to inspire and empower you to truly contribute to our collective efforts of maintaining a strong culture of values and ethics within the public service.

So, thank you all again for being with us in great numbers, and we're going to make the next couple of days a really rich, engaging and productive one. Are you with me? Yes, yes, yes. Come on!

[00:04:34 Camera briefly shows a view of the audience, then goes back to Nathalie Laviades Jodouin full screen.]

Nathalie Laviades Jodouin: So, without further ado, we're going to get started and it gives me great pleasure to introduce to you Elder Verna McGregor. Elder Verna McGregor is from the Algonquian community of Kitigan Zibi Anishinabeg, which is approximately 120 km north of Ottawa. She works at the Minwaashin Lodge, which is an Aboriginal women's support centre located in Ottawa. Services and resources provided by Minwaashin Lodge assist in the empowerment of Indigenous women leaving violence. Elder Verna is firmly grounded in her community and Nation by also being part of the group of traditional grandmothers (Kokomisag) and Elders. This includes promoting the retention of the Algonquian language and culture, which is so important when addressing issues and connection to the land.

So, with that, please join me in welcoming Elder Verna McGregor.

[00:05:35 Elder Verna McGregor takes the stage. Text on screen: Verna McGregor, Elder.]

Elder Verna McGregor: Oh, Miigwech, Nathalie, and thank you everybody. Miigwech, <Indigenous word>, Thank you, everyone. Hello, everyone. <Indigenous word>, Hello, everybody. When I was driving in this morning, I was thinking about your theme, what unites us, what defines us. And I always think about the difference also too, as Anishinaabeg or also Indigenous people, because for us, too. I'd like to welcome you here to our traditional unceded lands. And what does that mean? Is that we never signed treaty for the lands here, I said, because we were good at hiding in the bush. Where we're meeting today is very special, because again, I always said that as people heard me speak before, we're at this confluence of the rivers coming from the four directions. And... Sorry about that. And at the centre, I would say, is that it represents balance. And we would meet here in the summer because we're known for the birch bark canoe, and we'd meet about talking about the lands and the management of the lands, because what I would say is <Indigenous language> but my traditional name is <Indigenous language>, which has so many other teachings. And I think we're in that time where it was foretold that we will need to come together as a people, regardless of our differences.

And that's one of the teachings of this medicine wheel. You had the different coloured people. And we have stories in terms of the names of that because we were all given responsibility to look after the earth, and because we're gifted with language and reason. So, our responsibility is to the next seven generations or future generations, because we're the ancestors of future generations. And so, when I'm coming here, I was thinking about that. What unites us too, is that one of the things, the teachings, is that we all share the earth, the water, the fire, the air. And Covid taught an important lesson in the last couple of years in terms of how we're connected to the air, how we're connected to the water, how we're connected to the fire by the sun, because without the sun, we wouldn't have things growing.

And one of our biggest teachings in our creation story is that we were given instructions to be caretakers of this earth, and to only take what we need. So, there was a reason why we were also nomadic. And we were known for the birch bark canoe. So, we would meet here and talk about the management, it was a system of land management and the management of the people. And you're meeting here with the management of the people as public servants, because it's the highest honour to look after the good of the collective. And that's one of the meanings of the eagle feather, as well. If you're gifted one, it flies highest to the creator.

But the other part though, is that we forget that we come from spirit. And this represents the north, south, east, west. The sun comes up in the east, goes down in the west, cold in the north, warm in the south. Although this is changing with climate change. We're seeing that now as watching the people in Florida. We were talking about it. They would talk about tears from our relatives' eyes. We see this today and so now, what unites us and defines us these days is that we need to reevaluate our caretaking of this land.

But at the same time, we live in a dynamic time where our population has grown to 8 billion people. When the <inaudible> start with Columbus year 1492, it was estimated that there was 112 million Indigenous people here on Turtle Island. Turtle island is North America. And there's teachings to that that goes with our creation story. But also, by 1650, that population was down to 6 million, it's estimated. So, it's the biggest population decline in the history of the mankind, I believe.

But what they also foretold, for us as Algonquin, the coming of the newcomers here, and the time we're in right now. And one of the teachings is we come from the earth, and we return back to earth because really, whether we like it or not, we're all headed in the same direction. And that's why sometimes it also represents your balance between your emotional, physical, spiritual and mental. And again, I was just talking to a group last week in change management, and I said, how does change apply to you? How does it apply to your emotional, physical, spiritual, and mental? And sometimes what is missing is the spiritual, in order to connect, and connect with our ancestors.

So, that's why I do the opening prayers here. I was gifted tobacco. Again, this is one of our first gifts given to us, with instructions that any time you harvest anything, there's always a reciprocity of giving an offering of tobacco, because it was the first gift given to us. Anytime you ask somebody to do something in sharing knowledge or prayer, there would be ceremony, there would be an offering of tobacco. So again, it's that understanding of reciprocity. And I think that's what your roles as public servants in guiding this whole economy, is how do we also manage the four elements that connect all of us and define all of us, so that we have a good life here? And sometimes it represents honouring the contrast and in today's structure of us living here, sometimes you have this contrast. I was thinking of this in parliament, the right and the left. But I said, how do you balance that for the well being of the collective? And that's why I think the public service plays a big role. One of the teachings here is this dream catcher, and I say this often. Commercially, it filters dreams, but really it represents the spider teachings, but it also represents a reminder that everything is interconnected, including the universe, because you know that the sun and the moon also are so necessary, that the moon guides the waters, and our bodies are made of 72% water. And the sun you need [for] everything to grow.

So, on that note, I'm just going to say in a little opening prayer, to honour also the work that you do, and what defines us and what unites us is the four elements, and that we all come here, and we're put here for a reason today. So, I say, Miigwech, <Indigenous language>.

So, I'm going to ask somebody in the audience if they want to translate, so I'm just going to point my feather. Really, what I say is I go around and it's really a blessing to remind people how gifted we are to be here today. And that, again, it's a reminder that we are caretakers of this earth for future generations. And we have a little baby in the back, and the baby's here for a reason, too. He's here to remind you, so when he starts to cry, it's a reminder. So, you're put on notice, folks, of your job to do a good job.

What I'm going to do is I'm going to just light a little smudge here. And why we do that is, it's our connection from the physical world to the unseen world. And I usually use sage, but today I'm going to use tobacco – I mean sweetgrass – and why I do that, it's again, our connection, but also the sweetgrass represents our balance in body, mind, and spirit. That you have good balance today, in the next two days, in body, mind, and spirit, and send good wishes in the work that you do. So, this is my worst part of my openings, is lighting the fire in front of everybody, but I'm getting good at it.

And actually, the sweetgrass represents also the hair of Mother Earth. And right now, it is like a time to harvest. So, I'm just going to go around the room really quickly, and I'll pass the podium back to Nathalie. Just a sec. I thank you for your patience, Miigwech, I'll be back.

[00:17:10 Elder Verna McGregor leaves the stage to smudge the room with sweetgrass smoke.]

[00:17:17 Nathalie Laviades Jodouin returns to the stage.]

Nathalie Laviades Jodouin: Thank you so much, Elder Verna, for being with us here today. Thank you for your teachings and as well for setting the stage to get us going in the right way.

It is now my pleasure to introduce to you, and welcome to the stage the Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet, John Hannaford.

[00:17:44 John Hannaford takes the stage and addresses the audience from a lectern. Text on screen: John Hannaford, Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet.]

John Hannaford: Thank you very much, Nathalie, and thanks so much for emceeing today and tomorrow. And thank you, Elder Verna, for your wisdom in starting our day off today. It's always such a pleasure to hear from you and to learn from you. And I think it sets a tone which is entirely suitable for the conversation we're about to have.

We welcome everyone here and those watching <inaudible> from across the country and abroad. This is simply fantastic. It's simply fantastic to see so many people here today. It's simply fantastic to have 10,000 people online. It reflects, I think, something that I have been very pleased to see over the course of the last year, which is a genuine appetite to have a conversation about who we are. And that's really the point of today. And it's the point of the last year, which was to remind ourselves of the role that we play in our society. Remind ourselves of the importance of that role, the limitations of it, but the opportunities of it as well.

We operate in a world that is increasingly complex. There's a range of troubling issues and that is simply the fact of our reality. But as I said, it's also an opportunity to reflect and find ways to address the problems that exist. Over a year ago, I launched this renewed conversation about values and ethics. I feel a lot of pride, and deep pride, seeing how civil servants have reacted. You've chosen to approach this discussion with dedication and enthusiasm.

Over this year, conversations have been happening at every level and in every corner of our institution. These discussions have helped us to understand what Values and ethics mean to us as public servants, especially in a rapidly evolving world. This spring, we asked departments and agencies to report back on their progress, both on Values and Ethics, and on the Call to Action on Anti-racism, Equity, and Inclusion. To make progress on any of these issues, we need to learn from each other, share best practices, but more importantly, learn when things have not gone as we would have hoped. We also need to set goals and hold ourselves accountable. I encourage you, if you haven't already, to read your department's report <inaudible> from the PCO. The information is encouraging.

Many of you are taking actions to advance Values and ethics and the Call to Action within your organizations to embed them within your organizational cultures. And overwhelmingly, we heard you. That there is a desire to share those experiences. Share the difficulties that we've experienced, and how we resolve those challenges. Practical stories turn into good practice. That's how we bring our values to life in our daily work. And with your help, that's exactly what we're here to do today.

This conference is a step forward but it's not the end; it's rather about the way forward, collaboration, teamwork, enthusiasm and open communication. I'm inspired and I'm deeply proud of the creativity and innovation I've seen from public servants over the course of this last year. As we work together to further ingrain our institution's values and ethics in everything that we do.

As a public service, we're working to become increasingly more diverse, accessible, and inclusive. We're encouraging innovation and recognizing the importance of welcoming different points of view and novel approaches in doing the work that we do. And we're all here for the next two days to learn, including myself. Over these two days, we're going to cover a lot of territory and talk about the values and ethics journey that we've had to date and where we're going. We're going to update ourselves on the the way forward, on the Call to Action on Anti-racism, Equity, and Inclusion, and discuss its intrinsic link to our core values and ethics. We're going to talk about upholding democracy, serving Canadians, and understanding our role as public servants. And we're going to explore the use of artificial intelligence in the public service. Through it all, we're going to be sharing new tools and resources. And we'll hear from your colleagues, public servants, who have stories to share about their experiences with values and ethics.

I'd like to conclude by simply saying, thank you. Thank you to all who participated in the healthy discussions of their departments. Many of you have been involved over the past year. Thanks to everyone who made this conference possible. I know it took a lot of effort from different groups. I'm grateful for you.

I want to thank all of you, every public servant, for serving across this country and around the world. You deliver excellence to Canadians every day, and your work is deeply important. Thank you. Merci. Miigwech. And now we're going to hear directly from public servants about how they're bringing their values and ethics to life.

[00:24:03 A video is played on screen, showing a series of images of Canadian landscapes, and a diversity of Canadians at work in a variety of occupations, as described. Text on screen: from coast to coast to coast. Whether it's in the frontline positions or headquarters, in call centres and offices, in airports and harbours, in laboratories and out in the field, public servants are working diligently to serve Canadians.]

Narrator: Public servants work all across Canada, from coast to coast to coast. Whether it's in the frontline positions or headquarters, in call centres and offices, in airports and harbours, in laboratories and out in the field, public servants are working diligently to serve Canadians.

[00:24:22 Text on screen, as described.]

Narrator: We serve in over 200 occupations. In all different roles and functions, we are united in our common purpose.

We are also making progress toward making public service a healthier, more inclusive, accessible, and safe workplace where all people can contribute and achieve their potential. And we are working to advance Reconciliation in our work, and in our organizations. We are at our best when we are representative of those who we serve, and when we respect the strengths that each public servant brings to the table.]

Public servants are professional; we are non-partisan, and we are committed to delivering excellence for Canadians. In our rapidly changing world, grounding ourselves in our shared values is more important than ever. Respect for democracy, respect for people, integrity, stewardship, and excellence. Our values provide us with solid footing when navigating our incredibly complex environment.

Shifting geo-political dynamics, technological evolution, and the rise of misinformation and disinformation are just some of the pressures impacting our work. At the same time, these changes bring us new opportunities to innovate. Now is the time to bring our teamwork, creativity and passion to the forefront, and find new ways to serve Canada and Canadians better.

[00:25:54 Video shows images of public servants participating in various training events.]

Narrator: Over the past year, public servants have been engaged in a vibrant conversation on values and ethics. We have shown our dedication and eagerness to be part of this dialogue.

Public servants have shared their experiences, their concerns, and their concrete ideas for bringing our values to life and making ethics part of our everyday.

[00:26:14 Video shows a series of images from inside Parliament.]

Narrator: These conversations also underscore the important linkages between values and ethics, and the Call to Action on Anti-racism, Equity, and Inclusion in the Federal Public Service reminding us both are integral to our institution.

[00:26:38 Video fades to re-show title page.]

[00:26:31 Text on screen: This symposium is an opportunity to reflect on what we have learned and to find ways to sustain this momentum into the future.]

Narrator: This symposium is an opportunity to reflect on what we have learned and to find ways to sustain this momentum into the future.

Narrator: Our values are enduring, and our purpose is clear.

[00:26:47 Nathalie Laviades Jodouin appears full screen.]

Nathalie Laviades Jodouin: Thank you to the Clerk for these words of welcome and contextualization.

Now, as we move to the heart of this session, we're going to start with taking a deeper look at the outcomes of conversations on values and ethics that have taken place across the public service. And to lead us through this, I would like to welcome to the stage Christiane Fox, Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, as well as Zabeen Hirji, Special Advisor to the Clerk of the Privy Council and the former Chief of Human Resources Office, and the former Chief Human Resources Officer at the Royal Bank of Canada. Please give a warm welcome to our guests.

[00:27:34 Christiane Fox and Zabeen Hirji are seated together on stage.]

Christiane Fox: Thank you very much Nathalie, the Clerk, and Elder Verna for starting this conversation.

[00:27:46 Christiane Fox appears full screen. Text on screen: Christiane Fox, Deputy Clerk of the Privy Council and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet.]

Christiane Fox: It's really good to see the people in the room who we've met across regions and the country, and who serve Canadians and the public service. It's so nice to see a lot of familiar faces in the crowd today to have this conversation. And Zabeen, thank you for joining us. And I think if I think back a year ago, at IPAC, you were having a conversation with the Clerk around the importance of value and ethics and who we are as a public service and how we deliver on our very complicated mandates, as the video highlighted. And so, we thought it was important to start this day with a bit of perspective that is not just within the public service, because values and ethics is something that we hold dear in terms of the roles that we all play individually and as part of this large, wonderful organization. But you see it from a different perspective. And so, I have a question for you. In the context of values and ethics, how do you see maybe private sector best practices relate to how we have a conversation around values and ethics within the public service?

[00:28:57 Camera alternates showing Zabeen Hirji full screen, and Christiane Fox and Zabeen Hirji seated together on stage. Text on screen: Zabeen Hirji, Special Advisor to the Clerk of the Privy Council.]

Zabeen Hirji: at Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Hello. Good morning. Good afternoon. And thank you, as a Canadian, for your service to this great country. Very much appreciate what you do. And having now been around as an advisor for some time, really have a sense of how hard you work to build inclusive prosperity in our country.

So, let me just say a couple of words because I always go off script. You know that. So, I remember my first meeting with Clerk Hannaford, just as I was getting to know him. And even at that time, values and ethics was very much top of mind for him. And that's not unusual, in terms of the private sector lens, when there is a new leader to really step back and look at ways to take organizations to the next level. And then, of course, the conversation at IPAC and then the task team that was formed, which you were a part of, and I had an opportunity to travel along with you.

And if I look back to just a little bit on my experience RBC and then draw out some of the learnings which I think are applicable across sectors, the first piece of work that I led was actually 2001, and that was when the bank had come through ten years or so of acquiring different sectors of finance, because the regulation had been changing over time that allowed that. So, everything from branch banking to capital markets to insurance, and then, of course, functional staff: IT; finance; HR. And there was this opportunity to really look for what can we do to bring these organizations together? And so, there was a process to articulate values. And it seems to me that it would have been more similar to what you did earlier on, where it didn't have the significant employee engagement, because there was nothing out there yet. Employees didn't really own the values. And then the second time around, 2014, really looking at that, to modernize, what we call modernizing the values and articulating the purpose with much greater employee engagement, just as you're doing now, because at this stage, employees actually have ownership of the values, and you can't sit in the ivory tower and come up with that. So, I think that is a really good practice, because at the end of the day, we are all accountable for living the values and for bringing the values to life.

And one of the things that really, really struck me about the work was how much of a unifying factor it was. So, we started with, oh, we're different. Our work is different, our customers are different, we're in different countries, 40 countries, and how could we possibly find things in common? But what the values work did was it helped us to focus on the similarities, not the differences. And what's also important is, while the headline words for values are the same, you have different cultures in different parts of organizations, different roles, sometimes frontline versus somebody who's working in finance.

And so, the work involved in actually defining, what does respect mean? And you've got some definition there that applies across the enterprise. But what's super important is to bring that into departments, into teams, and sit down and say, so what does this mean to us day to day? How does this play out? What are the challenges that we have? And really contextualizing it, but also co-creating the definition around that, and having that level of flexibility so, in a way, the differences show up at that level, not at the overarching level. And that was probably the most powerful thing that we did.

And what it started to do, particularly the second time around, where there was also a focus on articulating our purpose. And clearly, it's easier in the public sector to, but sometimes you forget, I'm sure, as to why you're here and the difference that you really make, because we get so focused in our own silos. But it empowered people. So, I had people saying, one of the things that we are focused on is community. And I can now go into my community and support in a way that I couldn't before because I have something to point to.

So, these are frameworks that are not constraining but actually empowering. And of course, values are generally overlaid with an ethical framework which typically include things like justice, respect, fairness. Those apply universally. And so, your question around best practice is bringing it into your groups and teams, and it's not a one and done. This is an ongoing, always on. As context changes, as the world changes, having those conversations just built into the day-to-day conversations, the team meetings, it's not just about let's have a values conversation. That's where you start in this refresh and renewal. But then how is it built into everyday work? How do you bring [that] if you're sitting around a table making a decision and values matter the most when they're tough decisions?

Christiane Fox: Absolutely.

Zabeen Hirji: That's when it counts the most. And it's hard. And so, can you pull out your values framework and say, okay, let's just make sure that we are considering this in line with our values and then let people know how that's done.

And on this topic of hard, I know it's hard. You can't have a manual for everything or a policy for everything. There's judgment; there's peer support; there's manager support; there's leader support. And so, how you create those mechanisms to make it safe for people to do, but also to make it acceptable. I think I picked up most of the Clerk's comments in the back there, but talking about the mistakes, the failures, everything is not always going to work. Because if it does, we're not being innovative enough, we're not taking smart risks. And so, creating that environment becomes super important.

[00:36:18 Camera alternates showing Christiane Fox full screen, and Christiane Fox and Zabeen Hirji seated together on stage.]

Christiane Fox: That's so interesting. And I think a few things that you've said, especially the point you make about unifier, it acted as a unifier, and I think we saw that. There has been a huge appetite across the public service to have this conversation, to look at our values and ethics. And I think your exercise had two phases; in a way ours did too. We started with the Tate report in the '90s, and then the task force looked at it and asked: do the values in that report still reflect our values today? I think they do. People responded that, yes, the values are still relevant to the work we do. However, the context has changed a lot. So, I think resuming the conversation at this point was really important. And I think in sharing stories and experiences across the public service.

One of our colleagues, Gina Wilson, at Indigenous Services Canada, talked about this exercise as being, in part, storytelling for the public service. And I think that, as part of my role in the task force and the conversations that I've had since, I've learned a tonne about what people's challenges are in the values and ethics space. And I think, to your point around, these are hard moments when you have to make those decisions, and so it's not the time to have the conversation around the foundation. You actually have to have those discussions prior to. And I think what I've learned is sharing my stories of being a communications professional and sometimes having that grey zone of political communications versus Government of Canada, hard choices that I've made as a leader in light of services to Canadians, but sometimes challenged by other organizational issues that surface. And so how do you work through that?

And I think hearing from a prison warden in BC, or a pay advisor in Miramichi, or individuals who at times felt like their own identity became a political issue, and how do we navigate that as a public service? I have learned from those moments, and I think that this is part of what this conversation is about is we all – and I heard the Clerk say – we're here to learn and we learn from each other, and we're best when we collaborate, when we come together. And I think that that has to come with a lens of an understanding that the public service that I joined, I often tell this story that when I joined the public service, my then Deputy Minister, Richard Dicerni, pulled me aside and talked to me about what it meant to be a public servant. How that would impact who I was and what I represented, and the importance of nonpartisan, evidence based, data driven advice I would give in serving the country. And that really, really stuck with me. And I feel like over the last few years, pandemic; mis- and disinformation; introduction of AI; the context is so complex that coming back to this conversation, I think, is important.

And I think it's also important to note that the public service I joined is not the public service I want us to be, because it didn't talk about mental health. It didn't have Call to Actions. It didn't think about inclusion in the way we think about it today. And we're still not there yet. There's a lot more work to be done. But I think as a public servant, having the ability to compare our lived experiences and grow and learn, make us stronger. And one of the things, in this role, that I've reflected a lot more as of late is on trust. And the trust and confidence that Canadians have in institutions. At APEX we got to hear from Peter Mansbridge, who said the media industry is undergoing a similar challenge to government institutions.

Zabeen, what are your thoughts on trust in public service? And how does this Values and ethics conversation help us regain or keep that trust?

[00:40:14 Camera alternates showing Zabeen Hirji full screen, and Christiane Fox and Zabeen Hirji seated together on stage.]

Zabeen Hirji: Trust has become such an important aspect for institutions, for business.

Christiane Fox: Yes.

Zabeen Hirji: If you think about the banking sector, which is where I spent my career, the relationship with the customer is based on trust. And it's the same for Canadians with governments, the relationship is based on trust. And trust is so hard to earn and so fragile. And we know that. But there are moments of truth where you really have to think hard about trust. And trust is an outcome – you don't do trust. Trust comes from integrity. Trust comes from fairness. Trust is an outcome from many of your values, from respect. And as I think about trust in governments, of course, the media plays a huge role, and sometimes it's fair and sometimes it's not. And just for Canadians to have better skills to be able to decipher the fact from not, is important as well. But that's a different topic. And I think you're talking about upholding democracy tomorrow as well. That is something that becomes an important skill.

But I like the Edelman Trust Barometer – I trust it, ha ha. You can laugh – which has been around for a long time, it's a reliable source. And I was just looking at the data as I was preparing for this. And by the way, using GenAI, I was looking at the data, just saying, for your conversation tomorrow. And what's interesting is trust in governments, and not surprising, that in a crisis, it went up. So, in 2020, there was a huge increase in trusting – and this is Canadian data – in trusting government. And the following year, there was the same increase in trust in CEO's and business. And so, crises are moments that are trust building or trust destroying and you know that better than I do. But really paying attention to that is important.

What's happened, though, is that for governments, the trust levels didn't go back to pre-pandemic levels. And for business, they did. So, there's some learnings there, but it is around transparency. And again, I know these are really hard things, but important transparency with employees and transparency with Canadians. Your employees are a huge – they're advocates for the organization. And when they have information, they can speak about things, and there's a sense of pride that also comes from doing that. Accountability, which you touched on. Ethical leadership.

But one thing maybe that to finish off that I will add around trust that's emerging as something newer, is really trust in – it's around innovation. And so, Canadians overall, we are more skeptical about AI than the global numbers by quite a bit. In the Edelman Barometer, I think it's 19 points. And so, what Canadians are looking for is trusted sources of understanding the benefits of AI and the risks. And what are governments doing to help realize the benefits? We need that innovation for prosperity while at the same time smartly mitigating those risks and helping to educate Canadians on what they can do. But also, what are some of the things we can do? So, that may be something that you might talk about tomorrow.

[00:44:47 Camera alternates showing Christiane Fox full screen, and Christiane Fox and Zabeen Hirji seated together on stage.]

Christiane Fox: Absolutely. And I think the points you've raised around respect, accountability, stewardship, transparency, that's how we maintain and develop that trust relationship. And I think what I always try to remind myself, and I think it's an important reminder for all of us, in all the roles that we play at the end of the day, sometimes we can get caught up in the policy or the process by which we all have to work. A tv sub; an emcee; an operational plan; an IT system upgrade, whatever that work may be. At the end of the day, there are people behind all of that. And reminding ourselves around the importance of putting people first, putting Canadians first, or people who want to make Canada their home. And I think it's just this constant reminder as we want to gain trust that we can only do that, I think, if we keep that in mind.

And we have seen actually across the public service, a really interesting – you talked about values and ethics across the public service – but we're all unique in the roles that we play. The organizations all have a particular mandate.

And I think some of the real interesting parts of this conversation is seeing how people are living their values. And we've seen examples of that throughout the public service, throughout this conversation and in the submissions to the Clerk. But I know at Immigration, they decided to change how they onboarded staff in order to make it more meaningful. Not only did they do the regular onboarding, the regular training, they added a little bit more on values and ethics. But at the end of the day, they witnessed a citizenship ceremony so people could see the beauty of what it meant to do the work that they do and seeing how meaningful that can be to people. And so, how that looks like at Parks Canada or other organizations, we each have to make it our own. But I think overall, we all have to come together because the one thing that unites us is being public servants and living by those values. So, I thought it's worth a review of some of the documents online because it does remind us of the important role that we play.

[00:47:04 Camera alternates showing Zabeen Hirji full screen, and Christiane Fox and Zabeen Hirji seated together on stage.]

Zabeen Hirji: You know, one of the things, as you've been talking, the common theme is also just around our common humanity. As leaders, as individuals, what the pandemic did was just [it] accelerated a lot of trends.

Christiane Fox: Yes.

Zabeen Hirji: And people, the future of leadership or leadership today is really human. And I think what the values conversations help with is also for us to get to that humanity. Empathy, compassion, those are things that Canadians want to see as well.

And so, in communications, in engagement with Canadians, how can you bring more of that out? Because that's how we connect with Canadians. Everyone connects at that level. And that's what we saw during the pandemic, when you saw the spikes in trust, because we were looking for that leadership, that support, that empathy, that understanding, because we were all going through, regardless of level, role, sector, we all had common purpose and shared values.

[00:48:18 Camera alternates showing Christiane Fox full screen, and Christiane Fox and Zabeen Hirji seated together on stage.]

Christiane Fox: Yes. And it's something that we had a lot of conversations about in the context of the Values and Ethics sessions is, who speaks for public service? We've got ministers who speak to program and policies, as they should, but we have a responsibility to speak about our work, to speak about our trade. To have, especially in a world of mis- and disinformation, the public service route of our work. Explain a little, be transparent in our decisions, talk a little bit about our challenges in a realistic way. Because I think that when we do this, Canadians and the private sector, the academic sector, etc., can appreciate the challenges. And I think that sometimes, by sharing information and being open, we can also have partnerships that will help us handle the challenges we face. So.

Zabeen Hirji: And it builds pride. And that is such an important piece for people to be proud of what you do. And I think that's the opportunity for public servants is what are things that can be done to help get there because it's really hard. I get it. But the work you do is so, so important. And so, how do we bring that pride back into it?

Christiane Fox: Absolutely. Well, Zabeen, thank you for taking a few minutes with us. It's gone by very quickly and we're going to now move to our next panel. But I really appreciate you sharing your insight but also helping us along the way. I think it's really good sometimes to have an external voice to help guide our more internal conversation. But thank you very much.

Zabeen Hirji: Thank you. Thank you.

[00:49:57 Nathalie Laviades Jodouin appears full screen.]

Nathalie Laviades Jodouin: Thank you again, Zabeen. And Deputy Clerk Fox, you're not off the hook, so we will keep you here for another little bit. So, we're going to now move to broadening the discussion with perspectives from other public service leaders across different departments. As I mentioned, Deputy Clerk Fox will be remaining with us. She will be moderating the panel discussion, which will also be followed by an opportunity for live questions from audience members as well as those joining us virtually. Just reminding you so that you can start thinking about those questions, that you can start submitting them by using wooclap and entering the code VEOCT. And so, with that, I'm going to invite our panelists to come join us on the stage. Please welcome Jacqueline Bogden, Chief Human Resources Officer at the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat. Yes.

[00:51:02 Camera shows the audience and the panelists as they take the stage and are seated.]

Nathalie Laviades Jodouin: Taki Sarantakis, President of the Canada School of Public Service. Naina Sloan, Acting President, Pacific Economic Development Canada. Kimberly Lavoie, Assistant Deputy Minister at Natural Resources Canada. Vera Alexander, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister at Global Affairs Canada. And Vanessa Lloyd, Interim Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Services.

So, with that, Deputy Clerk Fox, the floor is yours.

Christiane Fox: Okay. Thank you and thank you to the panel for being with us this morning. I think we're going to have an opportunity to perhaps dive deeper into some of the best practices that have been developed over the last year, not only at the business level but also in individual departments.

[00:52:10 Christiane Fox appears full screen.]

Christiane Fox: As I mentioned, I had the opportunity to go and travel a lot over the last year and talk to public servants, and I saw firsthand about the value in having the conversation. And we used to have a process by which we had conversations about values and ethics. I don't know if you guys remember the little book. When I joined the public service, you were given this book. So, first of all, there's a bring back the book movement that's been started because there's a reflection about getting your letter of offer and just having a link to the values and ethics that you may or may not spend a lot of time on. And I think we've got to rethink that a little bit. We have to rethink it both in the context of onboarding and we have to rethink it in the context of ongoing learning, that we are asking people to change jobs; change departments; change levels of responsibility.

And so, I think, as I had a chance to meet with all of these great panelists, it's an opportunity to look at, enterprise wide, what are some of the things that we can do to reinforce our values and to keep them alive and well in the conversations that we have? So, I'm going to start with Jackie and asking her a little bit about the code and why the code matters in terms of being a public servant.

[00:53:28 Jacqueline Bogden appears full screen. Text on screen: Jacqueline Bogden, Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat.]

Jacqueline Bogden: Super. So, thank you very much, Chris. So, I brought a copy of the book.

Christiane Fox: Bring back the book.

Jacqueline Bogden: There you go. Bring back the book. There you go.

So, I'll just maybe start with first principles, as public servants, we are part of a very important national institution, and that is a professional and nonpartisan public service. And it is integral to Canada's parliamentary democracy. We have a fundamental role to play in serving Canadians and in the public interest, under the direction of an elected government and the laws of Canada. This is true whether we are scientists, inspectors, political advisors or passport processors, no matter where, we can learn from it.

As we fulfill our roles, it is very, very important that we always uphold and strengthen the trust and confidence of Canadians – that we need to firmly implant in our brains, front and centre.

So, how do we do that? We do this by, as we're talking about today, having very clear, shared values and expected behaviours that public servants collectively aspire to and try the best that we can to integrate into our actions and our decisions each day. These values and behaviours are of course described in the Values and Ethics Code for the Public Sector and in cases of conflicts of interest, your organization's code of conduct. Think of them as a compass that's there to guide us in everything we do. If you haven't done it recently, and I know we've been engaged in conversations across the institution, but if you haven't done it recently, I want to encourage you to sit down and take 30 minutes of your workday and read it from cover to cover. I did it again on the weekend, and I'll just say that the Code of Values and Ethics can inspire you, and it can remind you of why we are here and the importance of the work that we do every day.

My office has put together a great discussion guide called Everyday Values, which is publicly available and includes scenarios that can help you think about the values and ethics in your day-to-day work.

A couple more points: I also want to encourage you to think about what you are individually doing to improve and to live these values each and every day. The code is not there for somebody else. The code is there for each of us. And I want to encourage you that if you see something wrong in your organizations, like bullying or harassment or discrimination or fraud, that you speak up to your manager or another trusted person. That is another way that we live the values inside of our organizations. Accepting the values and complying with the expected behaviours are conditions of our employment, whatever our level or position. This means that we agree, and we aspire to bring the values and the expected behaviours to life every day. And we also understand that we can be held accountable if we don't live up to them.

[00:57:06 Christiane Fox appears full screen.]

Christiane Fox: That's great. I think the scenarios that your team has prepared are really helpful, actually. It brings a little life into the experiences that we might face. So, thank you for this work. One topic of conversation that came up a lot, actually, in the conversations, and I recall one in particular in Toronto with young public servants around social media guidance, and we looked at what exists for public servants now to equip them, to make sometimes challenging choices about how perhaps a social media post could put themselves or their organization in a compromised position.

And it was a really polarizing conversation because on one side of the room, you had people saying, I can post whatever I want, whenever I want. That is my right. And on the other side of the room, you had people saying, I'm a public servant first. Whatever I post could actually negatively impact how I am perceived or how my organization is perceived. So, I think that no matter where we land, we're not going to make everybody happy. But I did feel like social media was an area of vulnerability. And we haven't spent a lot of time equipping people, not with the hard rules, because we'll never achieve those hard rules. But maybe reflecting on questions that we should ask ourselves around social media, so perhaps you can tell us a little bit of where we're at.

[00:58:30 Jacqueline Bogden appears full screen.]

Jacqueline Bogden: For sure. So, as you said, Chris, getting public servants, we heard this both during the conversations last fall with the deputy group. We continued to hear this kind of thinking from public servants during discussions across our organizations and social media. Using social media has become an important part of our lives. So public servants want to know how to separate the personal and the professional. How do our job responsibilities influence what we can or should post online?

So, as public servants, like all Canadians, as Chris just mentioned, we all have the right to freedom of thought; belief; opinion; association; and expression. And these are all very important. But at the same time, we also have responsibilities, because of our role as public servants. We're expected to maintain a nonpartisan, impartial, and professional demeanor to uphold that trust and confidence of Canadians in the government and the public service that I mentioned a moment ago. And ultimately, we all need to be able to exercise good judgment when we're online.

In response to employee requests, my office has developed a draft guide that is available now on the virtual booths for this event. We appointed public servants and other stakeholders as bargaining agents in the development of this guide. These conversations were very helpful and had an impact on the document.

I would like to thank everyone who has participated up to this point and say that the discussion is not finished. There are still opportunities to provide us with your feedback to make it more useful to help you make good decisions. The draft guidance basically aims to bring together, in one place, hopefully in user friendly language as possible, what our existing responsibilities as public servants when we choose to use personal social media. It does not set out new rules or policy requirements. It just brings what exists this today, all in one place.

We hope this guide will help with decision-making in two main ways. First, we have put together questions to ask to help officials understand the risks and implications of online activities. Second, there are examples of activities that are considered potentially appropriate and others that are risky or inappropriate.

One area we want to develop a little bit further is to integrate some more useful practical examples that relate to the day to day experience of public servants. This is an idea we got from civil servants and bargaining agents. So, we have a little more work to do. I encourage you all to read this document, to discuss it within your teams and organizations, and to share with my office your thoughts on how we can improve the guide and make it as useful as possible. Thank you.

[01:02:16 Christiane Fox appears full screen.]

Christiane Fox: Well, thanks for all the work on that. I tried to make my kids read it this weekend, and they looked at me like I had three heads. But I think that the beauty of what Jackie described as the process to get to where we are with the social media guidance, is that we actually engaged people in actually writing it with us. So, it was done rather differently. We got excellent ideas, people who looked at the Australia guidance and how the Australian guidance wording was less punitive, like, you shall not do. And more like, you have this amazing responsibility as being a public servant, so how you react and use social media reflects that. So, I want to thank Treasury Board for just opening up that conversation. And, like you said, to unions, to employees and it's a draft, there is space for us to grow, and frankly, technology will take us places where we have no choice but to grow. So, thank you for that work. Taki, maybe I'll go to you next. The School of Public Service works a lot on tools to support our employees when it comes to the issue of values and ethics and the necessary training. We've got a lot of tools. We've got learning programs. So, Taki, why don't you talk to us a little bit about the things that exist, but also maybe the things that have been adapted as a result of this conversation?

[01:03:35 Taki Sarantakis appears full screen. Text on screen: Taki Sarantakis, President, Canada School of Public Service.]

Taki Sarantakis: Yes, thanks, Chris. So, as you mentioned, we do a lot. We have all kinds of things in this area. If you go on our learning platform, just punch out values or ethics, and you'll literally see hundreds of courses; events; job aids; videos; interactive tools; etcetera. It's there for you to utilize. You're never alone.

Some other things I'd like to highlight. We're bringing in our 2024/2025, Jocelyne Bourgon Visiting Scholars. Actually, in the audience today, Professor Ian Stedman from York University, and he's one of Canada's top experts on values and ethics. He has a long history there, so he'll be joining us this year as somebody that interacts within the public service from the academic community.

The other thing that I'd like to highlight a little bit is one of the values, and this, to me, like, you can look at these values in a positive sense and in a negative sense, like, thou shalt not do this, as Chris said about certain things. But then there's also the positive values of stewardship. I'd really like to highlight stewardship and excellence because we really need to talk about that more in the public service.

And, as you've been hearing about, and as you know, we're the largest employer in Canada. We're one of the largest. We're one of the most, if not the most, important organization in Canada. And, not only do we live in a troubled world, we live in troubled times. And even if the world in our times weren't troubled, we live in times of tremendous disruption. So, you talked about when you joined the public service, when I joined the public service, you have to bring new skills. You have to constantly bring new things to the table to serve Canadians. And as we saw during the pandemic, populations, they literally will live and die – this isn't an exaggeration – based in part on the quality of their public service. And as we look around the world today and we see floods and fires and viruses and misinformation and disinformation, part of your job is to help Canada and Canadians navigate through that.

So, I think I would really like to put a focus on the excellence in terms of what you can get at the School. We need to keep getting our tool set better and better and sharper and sharper to serve Canadians in this new world. Because, even if we are perfectly able to serve Canadians today with the tools that we have, a couple of years from now, we won't be able to. So, we just have to keep learning, keep growing. And so, in addition to the usual suspects, I would really stress the excellence of the five values in ethics.

[01:06:58 Christiane Fox appears full screen.]

Christiane Fox: Yes. And you talk about tools, as we're going to have a conversation tomorrow about artificial intelligence. There's an element of values and ethics. There's an element of how we're going to transform certain roles in the public service. So, we have to equip our employees to have a continuous learning approach throughout our careers. And welcome to our colleague.

Maybe the next point is around conflict of interest. I have to say that that has been a bit of a challenging conversation over the last year, both in terms of people who have found themselves in a difficult spot in terms of the clarity around conflict of interest. Like, I will say, when I sometimes raised conflict of interest, people thought it was punitive, and they worried about what it meant to declare a conflict. And it's actually enormously healthy for an organization to be talking about conflict, to declare that conflict. In fact, when I was with the auditor general's group, they do a conflict of interest for every single audit that they conduct to make sure that they are protected. And so, I see it as a protection. I think that there are issues that have played out on Parliament Hill and the media that have made this conversation tough in the context of clarity around conflict of interest. And I, even as part of this role, had discussions with our critics in the various political parties around values and ethics, and conflict of interest surfaced in that. So, I do think it's important for us to tackle this.

So, Jacqueline, maybe could you tell us a little bit more about how we can equip people around conflict of interests?

[01:08:40 Jacqueline Bogden appears full screen.]

Jacqueline Bogden: For sure. So, super important subject. Conflicts of interest, if you didn't know, are covered under the integrity section of the Values and Ethics Code. So, what is a conflict of interest? In case this is the burning question that's in the front of your mind, what's a conflict of interest?

A conflict of interest means any conflict that arises between our duties as a public servant and our own interests or private affairs that could influence the way we do our job or that could appear to influence the way we do our job. The expectation in the code is that each of us, as public servants, take all possible steps to prevent and resolve any real, apparent, or potential conflicts of interest between our official responsibilities and our private affairs. And that when we do that, we resolve it in the public interest. And that part is very important. Conflicts of interest are very varied and range from small actions to major conflicts. Here are a few examples: accepting gifts, such as lunch or speaking awards; serving on a nonprofit board; working a second job; or helping a friend or family member get a job or contract; all these situations can give rise to conflicts of interest.

Sometimes a conflict of interest is obvious and straightforward, but at other times, the issue is that the situation might look like a conflict of interest, even if it's not. So, it might look like a conflict of interest in the eyes of a Canadian or a member of the public, but it might not actually be one, or the situation is one that is likely to become a conflict of interest. Any of those situations can have an impact on public trust, and that is what we're most concerned about here. We must therefore organize our personal lives in such a way as to prevent conflicts of interest in order to maintain public confidence in the impartiality of public service and in our decision-making. If a conflict arises, it's important that we disclose it and take steps to resolve it in the public interest.

So, Chris, one example of a situation that has come up a few times over the last year that can result in a conflict of interest is when a public servant wants to enter into a contract with the Government of Canada. So, you're an employee, full time, or part time, and you'd also like to do some additional work and enter into a contract. So, on this question, I'd just like to make super clear for anybody who might be wondering about this, that the directive on conflict of interest requires us to seek and obtain the approval of our deputy minister before we enter into a contract. So, just to be super clear, you need to have the approval first before entering into a contract. Your deputy will want to evaluate whether is a conflict between your duties and the contract that you want to enter into, so I think it's really important that people are aware of that requirement. So, I'll just make a couple of other points. We all have a process for managing conflicts of interest within our organizations. This, along with the guidance of our supervisors, are here to help us stay safe and on the right side of these issues. As a reminder, we're required to review our personal situation when our circumstances change or when we change jobs and every year when we review our performance with our managers.

So, my advice to everyone would be this: have a conversation with your manager. If you are concerned about any conflict that you might have between your personal and your professional affairs, have a conversation with your manager or file a conflict-of-interest declaration whenever there's something that might look like a conflict. There is absolutely no downside to checking it out. And it's actually, as Chris mentioned, something very healthy for all of us to do, is to be asking ourselves about the things that are happening in our private life and how that might reflect on our capacity to do our jobs.

Christiane Fox: Excellent. Taki, did you want to add anything?

[01:13:36 Taki Sarantakis appears full screen.]

Taki Sarantakis: Yes, maybe just to add a quick coda to what Jackie said. Sometimes we talk about values and ethics and code of conducts with a heaviness, like it's a punitiveness. And we talk about it like it's a punitiveness, almost that it's unique to public servants. It's not. Every profession in Canada, whether you're a doctor; a lawyer; an accountant; a financial advisor; an architect; an engineer; you have values and ethics. You have codes of conducts, and there are certain things that you can't do at certain times when you join that particular profession. Like there are certain things you don't want your doctor doing; there are certain things you don't want your lawyer doing with your money. There are other things you don't want your accountant doing with your money. And those are good things, so think of them in that respect sometimes when they feel heavy. Think of them not as negative things but think of them as part and parcel of who you are as a public servant. Because, if you look at it from the other side, you should be proud that you're not allowed to contract with your own employer. You should be proud of the values and ethics that you embody every single day as a public servant.

[01:14:51 Camera alternates showing views of the audience and panelists, and Christiane Fox full screen.]

Christiane Fox: Absolutely, and there are even perhaps some organizations that have decided to make annual attestations for conflicts of interest as a regular reminder for their employees. It's still a good practice for us. As I mentioned, we've worked a lot with our teams in the other regions, and the dynamics there can sometimes be very different from the dynamics we know here in Ottawa.

Naina, you flew in from BC last night, so thank you for being here. I spent some time with Naina and her team, and it really struck me when I was out west, just seeing how PacifiCan, a new organization, obviously, the footprint in BC and across BC, very close to the clients and the services, which can bring a dimension of values and ethics. And I wonder if you can speak a little bit about that regional perspective when it comes to stakeholder relationships, serving ministers, and maybe have you taken a different approach within PacifiCan on values and ethics?

[01:15:56 Naina Sloan appears full screen. Text on screen: Naina Sloan, Acting President, Pacific Economic Development Canada.]

Naina Sloan: Sure. Thanks very much, Chris, and I'd be happy to. So, I thought I'd focus on three things today, and the first, just to back up, is just to remind us of the reality of being on the front line, because I think that's what a lot of public servants in the region really feel. They're on the front line. It's the front line of amazing work and an amazing purpose, but it's the front line.

So, we talked about how, and Taki talked about how big the public service is. To my count, just over half of that public service is in regions, and so it's a large group of people. In BC, it's almost 30,000 people across the board. And these are people who are engaging directly, almost daily if not daily, with individuals, with businesses, with communities. And that engagement can sometimes last longer, be a bit deeper or more visible than for some colleagues in national headquarters. It's not always the case, but sometimes is, certainly with citizens, I think, more visible.

And, in that context, what a lot of regional public servants will tell us is that they are regulating, they're perhaps enforcing, or they're explaining decisions. They're undertaking activity that is important and can sometimes present a heavy burden. And so, one of the things that public servants in the regions are doing that I've seen, as we've had this conversation that's been very valuable, is they've been living this advice or had the motto that when the burden is heavy, share it. And that's really led to a lot of really, really interesting conversations, and an ability to manage that burden and the risks that come along with being involved in quite important work.

The other thing I would say about the reality of being on the front line is that we have opportunities. We have opportunities daily to interact with citizens. I mentioned that already. I want to come back to it because it relates for me to this point that was made about excellence a couple of minutes ago. Every interaction we have with a member of the public, whether it's from Service Canada or it's in another organization, is an opportunity to either contribute to trust, or detract from it. It's not always the big questions. It's a service that's relevant or needed in a moment and how we interact on that service. And I think our regional employees really understand the importance of excellence in execution, which is so important to our mission overall.

So, that's number one. With respect to PacifiCan, we've really had a privilege, and the privilege has been to be able to build an organization from the ground up inside the public service. And that is a privilege. It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of work.

Christiane Fox: I'll quote you on that. The hard moments. It is still fun. Remember.

Naina Sloan: It is. But what I would say is that there we've had the opportunity to build values and ethics into the foundation of the organization, again, from the ground up. Embed it, and we've embedded it in a number of different places. Three are really important, I think, to mention. One is governance.

And so, we've built core committees with the mandates and with the opportunity to have or bring a collective view to Values and ethics questions. So, they're not simply individual views or individual discussions between employees and their managers. So, that's in governance. Incredibly important to build it into learning. And we've tried to do that in the agency as well.

We have this infamous platform in the agency called Tuesday Training. It's a flat training platform in that it's all levels learning together, and it's on topics that are driven by the interests and the needs of our teams. We've had a whole number of values and ethics conversations, scenarios, discussions in our Tuesday trainings, and they've been incredibly effective. It's voluntary, and we get 78% to 80% participation from the agency every time. So, they're relevant and valuable. We know that. And then we've got some sandbox activity around AI and things like that that allow us to experiment and to share that experimentation, including the Values and ethics questions that come up.

Most importantly, and I'll go quickly here, I know we're short on time, but most importantly, we've had the opportunity to build values and ethics into our culture and our culture statements for the organization. We've involved the entire organization in creating something that we call the culture canvas, and that is a translation of the Values and Ethics Code and an elaboration on it for our organization. It crystallizes and guides behaviours and actions that we all commit to as individuals in the organization for each other.

It captures why we exist; what we believe in; how decisions are made; and how we will help each other to learn and grow inside the organization. It's a really, really wonderful expression of the people values in the code. It's not everything, but it's actually taken root, and it's really important to employees.

Finally, I'll just make one last point, and that is more broadly in the region in terms of best practice. I've seen a lot of really amazing practice in the region around values and ethics over the last year. One sticks with me, and that's really around the practice of meaningful engagement. There was a regional executive that I spoke to who was thinking about how to have the values and ethics conversation with his employees. His employees are shift workers. They're spread across the day and night, in addition to being spread across a region. And his employees were, I'll admit it, a little bit skeptical about what started from their perception as a corporate priority and wasn't really felt in terms of the organization.

So, that executive didn't have a large values and ethics conversation with his employees. Instead, what he did was he took the opportunity of having a values and ethics conversation, raising maybe just one point in every single meeting he had with his employees about their work or about whatever else they were talking about. His big innovation was old school. It's not an innovation. It literally was a piece of tape he put on his coffee cup that had the acronym for the values of that organization on it. And it was his reminder, and the reminder for those he was talking to about what they were going to talk about. So, they would talk about the risks involved in whatever was happening for the individual employee, for the agency, and for citizens they were serving. And I thought that was just amazing.

[01:23:12 Christiane Fox appears full screen.]

Christiane Fox: Great. Thanks for sharing that. When we've talked about values and ethics, in the first part of the task force, there were conversations around, are they the right ones? And I think people felt they were, but some people felt that they needed maybe a little bit more add ons or life to them. So, the complementary values included empathy, compassion, honesty, and innovation.

Kim, maybe you can talk to us a little bit about how Natural Resources Canada has incorporated a value within our public service values.

[01:23:58 Kimberly Lavoie appears full screen. Text on screen: Kimberly Lavoie, Assistant Deputy Minister, Natural Resources Canada.]

Kimberly Lavoie: Yes. Thanks for the question. I'm very happy to be here today, to talk about our value but specifically the value of Reconciliation, because it's a little new, it's not something that is in all the documents and in all the departments, but it's something that is really important for us, as public servants, and for the public service in general.

So, I'd like to just talk a little bit about some of the work we're doing in our department that really brings this to life. Most Canadians know that Indigenous peoples, First Nations, Inuit and Métis, have a very close relationship with the land, and the Department of Natural Resources is also the closest department to the land. So, we have perhaps a closer relationship with our Indigenous people than most other departments.

And as we move forward and as we're looking at progressing to net zero, there's a recognition that the projects that we need, the resources that we need to take, are coming out of the land. And that those resources are being taken either from Indigenous territory or very, very close to Indigenous territory. And to quote an Indigenous organization that we work with quite closely, the road to net zero runs through Indigenous lands in this country.

In this context, it's imperative that we make a concerted effort not only to advance reconciliation efforts within the department but also to play a leadership role in advancing the Reconciliation agenda across government. And so, some of that work includes the revamped Code of Values and Ethics that NRCan actually just launched this morning, so the timing is perfect. Sometimes the stars align. And in this particular case, it actually did.

And so, we launched our new code, and through the renewal process, it was identified that Reconciliation was really, really important to the department. And it was something that was profoundly important to not only talk about, but to really identify as part of who we are and what we do. And so, we added Reconciliation as a 6th value in our code. And this is in addition to the existing values of respect for democracy; respect for people; integrity; stewardship; and excellence. And so, I'm incredibly, incredibly proud of the work that the department has done in this regard.

And to operationalize this requires dedicated effort. You put it in a code, and it just doesn't automatically become part of everyone's life. And so, we need to really think about how we develop our processes, how we develop our policies, not just our programs and services, but really how we do all of our work. And in addition to the code, we also have Reconciliation as part of our Ombuds charter, which was just recently developed. And we had that actually vetted by our Elders and residents to ensure that it struck the right balance. And so, it's really, really important that we do this work properly.

And another big piece of work that I would say is probably some of the foundation that laid the platform for these pieces that I just talked about, was a department wide pathway to Reconciliation framework and action plan that was literally developed from the ground up. This framework consists of four guiding principles, five pillars and two key actions designed to place Reconciliation at the centre of how departments think, act, work and communicate.

And employees are expected to apply the guiding principles of respect, reciprocity, responsibility and relationships in their daily work. The approach taken to develop this framework is the associated action plan, which is an excellent example of how we can apply our values and ethics in practice. It went and took the opinions and thoughts of 400 people and brought that up, validated it with senior management, and actually put it in a document that actually has distinct actions that people are expected to take, and we're actually putting it in our PMAs. So, it is very, very much alive and well in the organization. And I'd now like to say a few words about some of the activities <inaudible> that we do in the department.

And so, the sector that I'm privileged to lead branches in some areas that ADM's head up is called Nòkwewashk. It's the first sector to receive an Indigenous name in the federal public service.

Christiane Fox: Oh, wow.

Kimberly Lavoie: And it was gifted to us by our Elders and residents. And Nòkwewashk means sweetgrass in Algonquin. And it is about our journey to ensure equality and balance in the natural resources sector. And part of what we have also is the Circle of Nations, which is our Elders in Residence program that I talked about. It is about establishing training for cultural competency for employees to support our Indigenous employees' network. And we actually have a physical manifestation of the house, which, if you've not been to it, it's in the Experimental Farm. It is beautiful, and the energy is... you need to go. That's all I have to say is you need to go.

Finally, we've worked very hard to support the Indigenous people in our workforce, and we have a recruitment and retention program. It's the Policy Analyst Development Recruitment Program. And we have an Indigenous stream to hire Indigenous folks and to actually mentor them up through the ranks. And we have a career navigator that actually helps them out as well. So, I'm going to leave it there. I think I can talk about this topic for a few hours. But it's important that everyone has an opportunity to speak. Thank you.

[01:31:03 Christiane Fox appears full screen.]

Christiane Fox: Thank you very much for sharing. It's also interesting because there was worry.

There was a worry, I think, when we started this conversation that in some way that values and ethics would trump a lot of the other initiatives around Reconciliation, and Call to Action. I think we've been quite clear that actually they go hand in hand, and I think you've demonstrated, actually, that they go absolutely hand in hand in terms of excellence and respect for people and the core of what we're doing. So, thank you for sharing that. And I think we're all going to go visit the Farm, and the centre.

So, as we embarked in this conversation, there was a lot of focus on accountability. And actually, our young public servants raised even sometimes feeling like there's a double standard between levels of accountability, of senior leadership versus new public servants. And I think that, in part, we have to be probably a little bit more open and transparent around the accountability that exists. And I think that we saw from our colleagues at Global Affairs that there's a really interesting way that we can do that and think about how we communicate that accountability and consequential accountability.

So, Vera, talk to us a little bit about how you got to where you got and the report you published and maybe some best practices for all of us to reflect on.

[01:32:14 Vera Alexander appears full screen. Text on screen: Vera Alexander, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Global Affairs Canada.]

Vera Alexander: Yes. Thank you, Christiane. Over the years, Global Affairs Canada has faced a significant increase or a growing gap in employee confidence in promoting the department's values and ethics, preventing harassment and managing, more generally, misconduct. And the public service employee survey found that the top reason employees don't report concerns is the perception that it won't help. So, what do we do with this? We thought about this and how we can react and actually – to win back or to raise the confidence levels of our employees. And that comes squarely at accountability. And our deputy minister came up with the idea of this annual reporting exercise. And if you haven't read it, our first was published in October 2023, the second in June 2024. But it lists all the complaints we've had in different categories; which ones moved on to an investigative process; what the outcome was; which were founded/unfounded; and then what was the consequence for those involved.

We consulted experts in privacy, lawyers, et cetera, to push our boundaries as far as we could and be as transparent as possible. The report was put out. I spoke about increasing the confidence of our employees, also by holding us to account, but also improving or developing a better understanding for our employees of what are the various mechanisms one can use to show all employees, again, educate them again on our standards, remind them of what is acceptable and what is not, and to encourage reporting and through all of that, reduce wrongdoing and misconduct.

Now that we have our second report, which we've improved by increasing the number of categories, the types of complaints, but also improving the quality of the data that we have, we can now also do year by year comparisons and in future also be looking at trends. And one thing we've noticed is there's a huge jump, or a very significant jump in the number of reports of wrongdoing or misconduct. But that has allowed us to address these situations earlier than we otherwise might have and to take action more quickly. So, we're already seeing the benefits of this report in being able to do that.

And then some of the perhaps unintended benefits are that when it comes to our own ecosystem, the labour relations experts; security experts; those conducting investigations; financial fraud; etcetera, they are working more closely together and more seamlessly to reduce time periods for response and reaction and investigation. And I'll just add that all this has been taking place – I think the first report was launched just on the heels of the creation of our new wellbeing ombud office, which is also serving as a one spot shop, if you will, or a place that people can go to in a secure safe environment to express their concerns and also be guided or informed about what various avenues they could take.

And then also during the course of this past year, we as a department have been talking a lot about our values and ethics, of course. We developed, and this was really a ground up, a vision statement for the department that we call our North Star, which is not just about the services that we provide to Canadians and our work, but also how we do our work. So, with these various avenues and discussions, I think we really have managed to improve understanding of the avenues that employees who are concerned about misbehaviour or wrongdoing can take and as well as understanding by all employees about what they need to live up to and hold ourselves to account when it comes to that.

[01:38:30 Christiane Fox appears full screen.]

Christiane Fox: That's great. I know that central agencies are looking at how maybe we can collaborate to do something very similar. And I think you've sparked a conversation about what departments could be doing to be transparent and show that, yes, there is accountability, there are consequences. But the other side benefits that you talked about bringing people together, those are interesting benefits for the organization as a direct result of this effort. So, thank you. Thank you very much.

We'll move to our last panelist before we open it up for questions. Vanessa, clearly, in the national security space, you've had a very restful weekend. There wasn't a lot happening. So, an enormous thank you. I know you probably lack sleep, but you've joined us this morning to continue this conversation. And I think CSIS has done a lot of work in terms of raising awareness around the code and conflict. And so perhaps you could tell us a little bit about the services efforts in this area.

[01:39:31 Vanessa Lloyd appears full screen. Text on screen: Vanessa Lloyd, Interim Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service.]

Vanessa Lloyd: Thanks very much, Chris. And maybe I'll start with a thanks to you for inviting me to an event where my answer does not have to be for the reasons of national security. I can't answer that question. But seriously, colleagues, that goes a lot to what Vera was just talking about. And I am super proud because of reasons that you were speaking about with Zabeen this morning. Importance of trust in government institutions is about transparency, about having these conversations, and about being able to put things in the public domain.

So, as the values and ethics champion of our organization and operational intelligence organization, I'm super proud that our annual employee affirmation exercise has been cited as a best practice in the Clerk's report. And I'm really excited to talk to you about it today. That being said, I think some of the issues that we're talking about here go to the challenges that we've had in our department as an organization and more broadly over the public service. And it goes to Vera's points about what we're reporting on and what we're choosing to report on publicly. The CSIS is celebrating its 40th anniversary this year, and I can confirm that over the years, we've had many conversations internally about our culture and where we hope to be at this point.

So, like many of your organizations, our employees are first introduced to our code at the time of onboarding. It's not quite a book, Jackie, but it's a similar idea. And we try to keep that front end service over the course of the career. And that includes what I'm going to share with you today, which is how we do that over the course of a year. In 2019, we reviewed our code, and in 2020, we made quite a purposeful decision to publish the code externally. But we also made a significant decision about how we're going to live that in the organization. And that was to institute, as of 2020, an annual exercise where employees affirm their understanding of the code and their commitment to it. And it's both to the Code on Values and Ethics, and to the conflict of interest and post-employment directive.

So, what does that look like? Every year, over a period of approximately two months, the CSIS organizes an awareness campaign to remind employees of their obligations regarding the code and the annual attestation. The campaign includes reminders on employees' workstations, posters and messages on electronic boards in our offices.  And in plain language.

So, we start with a focus campaign, reminding people to know your code; to stop, reflect, inquire, ask questions; to have the reflex that when in doubt, check it out. Go to your code. Go to the policies that help give you that frame of reference. And then after that campaign, we progressed to an annual learning module that employees have to go through every year, as I said, to attest their understanding and renew their commitment to the code. And that exercise is contained of some of the elements that my colleagues have talked about today: concrete examples of how we, as employees, are expected to align those values with our daily responsibilities in our job, but also between our public responsibilities and our personal lives. And we really also make an addition to that commitment in terms of building those scenarios. And I'll be interested to see where Jackie ends up in the scenario building more broadly for the public service, but connecting it to what Zabeen was saying this morning, that's [an] important element to internalizing the code. It's connecting it to the business of your department.

So, we have commitments for the code to live as public service servants, and as for the theme for today, that's what unites us. And we're also driven by how we apply our particular values and ethics to the work that we're doing in service of Canadians.

The CSIS members are committed to safeguarding Canada's prosperity and national security interests and, in doing so, protecting our population. Our commitment to the code is a crucial element to the success of our mission. These values guide our actions in our functions. They are the foundation of our work and help us maintain public trust and [01:44:17 this] by meeting several other ethical standards.

So, thanks to this annual attestation exercise, we have an opportunity to make sure that living our values and ethics is at the front and centre of all of our professional responsibilities. The annual affirmation exercise helps us to remind us that ethical decision making is not just about the big issues – it is about the big issues – but it also happens in our everyday. So, our code guides us in making decisions that reflect our values. When we attest to the code and the conflict of interest and post employment directive, we are personally committing to integrating those values into our roles and ensure that when we encounter – because it's not an if, it's when –we encounter situations that go against our personal interests that the best solution must always be in favour of the public interest.

Specifically, the opportunity that it gives us every year is that when we experience periods of change on a personal or professional level, we must reevaluate our activities and our functions. The annual attestation reminds us to ensure that we're not in a situation of conflict of interest, whether real, apparent or potential. In part, the annual affirmation exercise is about compliance. It's important to be able to ensure that we have a measure of our success with regards to our ethical obligations, but it has to go beyond that. We need to embody those values in our daily decisions and actions and make sure that we're always upholding integrity of the public service.

So, we use these conversations as a way to emphasize that whether you're a new hire or a seasoned employee, that annual affirmation reminds us that we're all responsible for upholding our ethical standards and our obligations as public servants. For an intelligence service, it's also a commitment that demonstrates our dedication to doing things right, and doing the right things, even when no one's watching. And I can tell you, as an intelligence service, we always assume that someone's watching. Thanks very much. The opportunity to share with you today.

[01:46:35 Christiane Fox appears full screen.]

Christiane Fox: Okay. Thank you very much for sharing, and it's important to take some time to reflect on our obligations on an ongoing basis. So, we now have the question period. We don't have much time, but we can take a few questions. We can take questions from the room or virtually.

So, we can take questions from the room, and virtually, I would just ask you to make your questions concise, if possible. And limit yourselves to one question. You can direct it to a panel member, or we can direct it. We won't have everybody respond to everyone, but while we wait for any in room questions. Okay, we'll go to you next. We'll do the first one online, and then we'll go to the back in the blue sweater. So, how do you streamline different interpretations of shared values? So, how do we streamline different interpretations of shared values? Anyone want to jump at that? Yes, go ahead, Naina.

[01:47:31 Naina Sloan appears full screen.]

Naina Sloan: Well, I was just going to start us off by saying that the point of shared values, I think, is to have the conversation first of all. How do you do it? You have the conversation. And you can't do it without having that. And I think that that conversation needs to be quite clear about what we hold as personal values and what we hold as professional values or values as a public service. And those can be different, and we can come to those values with different interpretations, different backgrounds, different ideas, different levels of commitment, et cetera. And I think what we've heard on the panel is that that discussion of those shared values, understanding what we mean, what we don't mean, and how we will apply them together, is most important. So, I would say how you're talking about them.

[01:48:23 Christiane Fox appears full screen.]

Christiane Fox: We also heard a lot about the problem of when our individual values can be in conflict with organizational values, and how we can reconcile our role within the organization. So, I think having a conversation and commitment with our teams is absolutely how we can bring people together. Taki, was there anything you wanted to add?

[01:48:49 Taki Sarantakis appears full screen.]

Taki Sarantakis: I'd like to perhaps clarify the question a little bit. The question said, how do we streamline different interpretations to our shared values? I'd make it a little bit more specific to say, how do we have shared interpretations of our shared values? Because it's really, really important that we're all on the same page on most of, if not all of these, because if you have shared values, but different interpretations, you don't actually have shared values.

[01:49:19 Christiane Fox appears full screen.]

Christiane Fox: Yes. Thank you. Okay, we'll go to the back of the room.

Audience member: Can you hear me?

Christiane Fox: Yes.

Audience member: Okay, so my question is for anybody on the panel, but primarily, Chris, it is for you.

Christiane Fox: Oh, okay.

Audience member: When we look at things like Reconciliation; the Clerk's Call to Action; the LGBT purge; we spend a lot of time tracking, training, who's attending, having conversations, commemorative events. What we haven't been doing is how do we move from that awareness piece, that I think we're doing well at, to concrete structural change? If we're going to talk about respect for people, it has to go beyond awareness and conversation. It has to result in an environment where people can speak up. And I'll be quite honest, I can speak up today partially because I have white privilege.

[01:50:04 Camera shows view of the audience and panelists.]

Audience member: I can speak in this space, and it's not a safe space, not necessarily here, but in my career, in the different departments I've worked in, I've been assaulted for speaking up. So, my question is, how do we move from discussion to concrete, structural, enduring change?

[01:50:22 Christiane Fox appears full screen.]

Christiane Fox: Well, thank you. And thank you for raising your own journey and the challenges that you've had. I think part of the conversation that we've been having is around concrete actions. To your point, the awareness piece is important, the engagement piece is important. The conversations have to be had. But I think what people need to see at the back end of that is, what are the concrete changes that they will see within their departments, whether that's the creation of ombuds people; whether that's better data sharing amongst our targets for recruitment to be a better and more diverse workforce; actually identifying the barriers that we see in people's ability to achieve higher levels or get opportunities, whether it be for language training or mobility.

And so, I think what you are articulating is where the system needs to go, is clarity around action, clarity around results against those actions, changes that we can make at the leadership level to empower people. And I think one of the hardest things to hear or see or do in a department, is when you know that employees within your organization are suffering, when you know that there is racism or you know that there is discrimination and trying to find ways in those particular instances to change the system, to support people.

So, I think that we get to that through action. I think we get to that through transparency around what we're doing; why we're doing it in a particular way; what we're prioritizing, because the system does not shift overnight. And I think that some of it will be enormously challenging. You talked about Reconciliation. Probably the biggest challenge we will have as a system is co-development vis a vis our Westminster system. We haven't actually tackled that. That's very difficult. How do we do that? How do we actually work within the system, yet be committed to Reconciliation?

So, I don't have the perfect answer for you, but I think what we have to do, each organization and government wide, is become more concrete about the actions we take, being more transparent about why we've chosen certain things ahead of others, and then actually working together on results. And I think that execution is something we should all be focused on. Execution of the changes within the public service and execution in operations and our ability to serve Canadians. We have struggled because we're big, and sometimes it can be hard to be nimble. We have great examples of execution. If you look at programs that have been stood up; changes that have been made; the post pandemic and pandemic recovery; there's really great examples of that. But I think execution goes at the heart of your question because it actually delivers on some of the words that we have been using for a long time. So, thank you for that question.

[01:53:20 Camera shows view of the audience and panelists.]

Christiane Fox: I'm going to go to another question in the room and then we'll go online. So, I'll go over to you. Yes. Yes. I think someone's going to come with a mic, actually.

Audience member: Hi, can you hear me? Great. My name is Alexis Ford-Ellis. I am a Gwich'in woman, and I have a lot of questions, but I'm going to stick to the one like you asked. It is around mental health and wellness.

I'm the Director for the Indigenous Wellness Resource Centre at the Knowledge Circle for Indigenous Inclusion. And what I'm running into oftentimes is, although we're doing lots around resources, building resources, making sure that they're distinctions based, is I'm still coming across, and so are my colleagues, addressing bullying of our Indigenous employees for being Indigenous, or not being Indigenous. Often, I will be a mental health support for many of our colleagues who are being disciplined or who are going through an investigation, going through a grievance. Oftentimes, from my perspective, because of my background, I know that they're also dealing with their own trauma, intergenerational trauma.

So, coming all the way back to it is within the private sector, there is a piece of legislation called Duty to Inquire. We don't do it necessarily in the federal public service. We think we do, but we don't. And so, what I would like to know is, how can we better – and this might be for you, Jackie, and it might be for all of you – but how do we better address, under the United Nations Declaration Act, how do we look after our Indigenous employees in government? We do great work looking after Canadians, but we forget that, as public servants, we are Canadians and that we aren't looking after us internally. And because we only have maybe 10,000 to 13,000 Indigenous employees, we need to do a better job, and we need to be better resourced. And it can't always be non-Indigenous thinking that they can look after us. We need to be able to look after each other, and we do it in a good way and in a kind way. And I guess that's what I'm getting to in terms of the whole values and ethics, is, can we add mental well-being into the values and ethics in terms of how do we treat people with goodness, kindness, and how do we address trauma when we think it's maybe something else when it's not, and how do we do it in a good way?

Christiane Fox: Okay, thank you. Jacqueline?

[01:56:01 Jacqueline Bogden appears full screen.]

Jacqueline Bogden: Yes, sure. So, I heard a lot in that question. It pains me to hear that there might be employees who are being bullied by people outside the organization. I have had to step in to protect employees from that. Hopefully, you have got a supportive management structure that's doing the same.

So, mental health is super important. That is part of that respect for people. And we have to continue to figure out how we bring that to life inside of our organizations. And I think what you're speaking to is the trauma that our Indigenous employees feel and how do we support them. So, I think that is definitely a work in progress and someplace that we need to get better at doing that.

I think I'd like to understand what the Duty to Inquire is. I haven't heard about that before, so I will ask my team about that. We do have opportunities to think about how we better support our Indigenous employees. For example, in the last round of collective bargaining, one of the things that I hope most of you are aware of is that we did create space for employees to take time away from the office, be on the land, and reconnect with Mother Earth and what matters. That is an important step towards supporting our Indigenous employees. But perhaps there are more things that we could do. And so, I think we would welcome to hear from you and other Indigenous employees about the ways in which we could do that. That's just one tiny example.

Christiane Fox: Go ahead, Kim.

[01:57:47 Kimberly Lavoie appears full screen.]

Kimberly Lavoie: Thank you so much for your question. As a Mi'kmaq woman, I understand some of what you're coming through and from. I, too, have people come to me with challenges. And some of that is informed by trauma and lived experience. And we need to remind ourselves that the legacy of residential schools is not something that was historic. The last residential school only closed in 1996, so there are people in the federal public service today who actually physically attended residential school. And so, it's not something that happened way long ago in the past. And it is not something that is a story or a history. It is real. And intergenerational trauma, also incredibly real.

So, as we are working with a diverse public service, we need to create safe spaces. Spaces where people can be themselves without fear of reprisal, to be able to have the candid conversations that are needed to be able to move forward, both professionally as employees, but also to grow personally, to grow into the roles that we want people to assume. So, safe spaces are really, really important.

And I would just add that as we're moving forward, we need to remember to be kind to one another. Because I do think that's something that we lost a little bit in the pandemic, is that we've lost the notion of kindness. And it doesn't hurt to be kind, and only good can come of it. So please, please, when you're dealing with your colleagues, you don't know what they've been going through that day. And while you know it may be frustrating, just remember, react with kindness and the world will be a better place.

[01:59:42 Christiane Fox appears full screen.]

Christiane Fox: Thank you. Unfortunately, we don't have anymore time for questions. Those who submitted questions online, we'll return to your questions during the programming. This is a really important time for this conversation. We've talked about the complex environment in which we operate. We have an electoral event over the next year. We have mis- and disinformation. We have an AI introduction that's disrupting our social, personal, and professional spaces. And so, I want to thank all of you who participated for your questions. I want to thank the panel for sharing with us your best practices.

Because it's important that as public servants, we equip ourselves to meet the challenges and be ready for continuous learning. Sometimes these conversations can be tough, but I think with honesty, with kindness, with respect, I think we are better equipped if we deal with issues together as a team. Public service is a team sport. And I think having this dialogue today matters in the context of what we will face in our current jobs and into the future. So, thank you very much to the panel. Thank you.

[02:01:00 Nathalie Laviades Jodouin appears full screen.]

Nathalie Laviades Jodouin: Thank you, everyone. And I just want to reiterate our gratitude for the active engagement. We do hope to get to some of those questions later this afternoon. But in the interest of time, before we take a quick break, just a couple of short highlights, if I will.

Many of the resources that were mentioned during the discussion are available in our virtual booth. So, we encourage you to access it through the QR code you see on the screen.  Also, to mention that over the next couple of days, the social media team, actually from the Privy Council office, is set up just outside down the hall for those of you who are here in the room to interview willing participants on topics related to the symposium. And these interview clips will be featured on PCO's social media accounts. So, feel free as you exit the room to participate.

We'll now take a short break. In the interest of sticking to our schedule, I would ask that you please return at 1:45 pm, Eastern Standard Time. So, 1:45 pm, back in this room, Eastern Standard Time. And a final warm applause for our panelists here today.

[02:02:22 The CSPS animated logo appears on screen.]